Deerhoof's Greg Saunier and Flaming Lips' Wayne Coyne “No no, some people hate us.”

After a set of dancing and riffing, my engineer/photographer Ben Seretan and I managed to talk to the frenetic Greg Saunier of Deerhoof outside of the ballroom at Kutsher's Country Club in Monticello, NY, during All Tomorrow's Parties NY 2009->ATP NY 2009. We discussed Marshall Allen and Sun Ra, the peculiarity of ATP festivals, and the visuals done by Martha Colburn during Deerhoof's set. By the graces of none other than the Lord himself, Wayne Coyne and his wife J. Michelle Martin-Coyne passed right by us on a golf cart, as we were discussing Saunier and Coyne's meeting. Wayne and Michelle then offered their insightful platitudes on Greg's drumming, Boredoms, Caribou Vibration Ensemble, and the whole shebang.

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Greg Saunier: Okay, mic check, mic check, mic check.

I know it's not the most original way to start an interview, but I have to say your set was awesome.

GS: No no, I'm not going to complain! That's better than most, usually it's, "So how would you describe your band to someone who's never heard them?"

Oh sure, sorry, are you guys a rock band or a pop band? I just don't get it. Or what do you guys do? Anyway, how's this whole thing [ATP NY] been for you?

GS: The thing? Well, it's been cursory. It has been brief. We got here at like 3:30, we didn't see anything, we saw Caribou Vibration Ensemble from behind. [Laughs] That's been the extent of our ATP. I went up for a second, and yeah, you know it's weird. They always say that strobe lights can cause seizures for people who are susceptible. They had their strobes, and whoever was doing their lights knew what they were doing, it was just a flash that was timed rhythmically with the music which is totally different than when Wayne wears his wand and it's just mechanical and it's not in rhythm, but these were in rhythm with the song and I started to think -- well of course I didn't have a seizure and I don't know what it feels like to be epileptic but it was bothering me more than any strobe light. I always love strobe lights I never feel anything, but when it was in rhythm with the music, I was like I don't think I can watch this.

Yeah, I actually had my sunglasses on. But what did you think of the music?

GS: It sounded great, although I was slightly annoyed that I could hear everything except Marshall Allen until the very end, and then that was just absolutely beautiful. I've seen Marshall play many times, both in his own group smaller groups, you know post-Sun Ra, and I even saw Sun Ra Arkestra once in I think 1990. Sun Ra was in a wheelchair by that point but it was still totally amazing, and I actually remember Marshall Allen from the show because after it was all over -- I mean no matter how DIY and down to earth I might try and pat myself on the back, or how we in our band pat ourselves on the back for being, when Sun Ra was finished after decades of being a legend, a musical legend, a huge chapter of 20th century music history, as soon as the show is over here comes Marshall Allen with a stack of these records that they've obviously printed on their own label. Just white sleeves with nothing on it, he's like who wants some records? Trying to unload these things, who's got a cigarette, and it's just like they really didn't even have a merch person!

Was this humbling or inspiring for you at all?

GS: Actually at the time, it was a little scary for me because the concert was so powerful and the subject matter so cosmic, so beyond, and then to have the concert end and then it was so not cosmic in any way, it was a human being who wants to eat dinner and is like, somebody buy some of these records! I'm not saying anything that isn't obvious to Sun Ra fans, but part of what made his whole self-created story so intense and so poignant was in fact how totally opposed to reality his actual reality was. Sharing this tiny flat in Philadelphia and just scrounging for decades and never having a hit, hardly making any money, just scraping, and yet always with their eyes on Saturn or on the galaxy. And, oh, just as far as their actual output musically or lyrics -- if you see Space Is The Place, Sun Ra himself never, ever, let slip any kind of like “but really, I'm actually bitter!” or anything like that. He was so pure in his presentation. Of course I felt inspired! I still do.

Have you brought that attitude to Deerhoof?

GS: Well, uhhhhh, no. I would never make that comparison. I couldn't begin… it's really not the same thing. We're just kidding around by comparison, let's put it that way. I mean ask me again in 40 years and if I'm still going and I've got my stack of records and like “come on man” buy one! Then the proof will be in the pudding, but I can't, at this point I'm just you know…

So speaking of new records, Offend Maggie, I'm a big fan!

GS: Well that's not obvious! I appreciate it

Well I hope it'd be obvious!

GS: No no, some people hate us.

Well, fuck those people.

GS: [Laughs heartily]. Well, it's okay. I always say to myself that sometimes you hear music the first time and you really do hate it. But sometimes the music you hate the most the first time you hear it, and I'm sure my band mates would disagree with me right now [they pass by at this moment smiling and drinking beer], can become after a few repetitions, or if like someone you really respect is for some reason like "oh I really love this song" or "oh this is so pretty" and you're like “what?” but if something can happen where you can actually learn to like it, sometimes the things you hate the most end up being the things you love the most later, so that's why I say when people hate Deerhoof, I always say you're a future fanatic.

I wonder if you could talk about how you got here. I know you know Wayne and you've played with The Flaming Lips before, and they chose you, they “curated you.”

GS: Well, yeah but that doesn't explain it because then the question is how did I know him before? It's purely, I mean I don't know how in the world they ever heard us, it's purely just because of their, it's nothing we did, it's just luck in our case. There he is now. [At this point Wayne and J. Michelle drive by on a golf cart] Hey Wayne, how did we know you?

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"Yeah, he almost hit Satomi a couple of times…"
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Wayne Coyne: Hey how's it going? [laughs]

GS: In other words, that kind of explains it -- it's an unexplained mystery.

WC: Hold on, I'm going to park, I'll be right back. [Wayne parks his golf-cart]

GS: Who knows what he or anyone else sees in our music but, it makes me very happy and you know the first time we met them they just invited us on a show one time and we met backstage and I mean the second I met Wayne it was as just, well I had seen him in magazines and stuff…

WC: Hi guys.

GS: Nice to see ya.

WC: It was a fine show! I haven't seen you guys with a new guitar player!

GS: Yeah, he's some guy!

WC: Yeah, he almost hit Satomi a couple of times… has he before? I thought he was going to hit her.

GS: She always crashes into guitars.

WC: Now she's in the middle and this is your set-up now? Is this your set-up now where you're on the side and she's on the middle? I loved your interludes in between, that's just…

GS: What! Me speaking? Yeah that's my Wayne Coyne imitation.

WC: Ah, I see. You don't want to go into too much detail but uh….

GS: I don't know, we were trying to explain why I know you, Wayne, I don't know, you invited us to play…

WC: We did a show, that weird show in Portland, or outside of Portland…

GS: And I mean, we pull up totally nervous, and backstage Wayne comes up and is like, first thing, "Okay so that song, “Sirius Star,” how'd you guys make that up?"

WC: Yeah!

GS: And he's like, remember doing that interview in Tokyo and you said this one thing and he's like remembering interviews, and I'm like uh what are you talking about!

WC: Yeah, yeah, I love that song! And we were amazed at how efficient you guys were, you had your broken cymbal, no hi-hats, just your kick drum.

GS: Now I'm a prima donna with all this nice equipment.

WC: It's just overblown now. [laughs]

J. Michelle Martin-Coyne: I've always thought you looked like this giant behind your drum set.

WC: Yeah definitely, but back then that little drum kit…

GS: I still have the same drum kit, we couldn't fly with it though.

WC: You know the secret… your drums sound great, you make anything sound great.

GS: Well it's not me, it's the engineering.

WC: No, it's a true skill.

GS: It's your enthusiasm that makes my drum sound good

WC: No, no I could tell from that second I heard it…

GS: No, ears are powerful.

WC: No, he's a great drummer. He is, of all the drummers, he's…

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"... sometimes the things you hate the most end up being the things you love the most later, so that's why I say when people hate Deerhoof, I always say you're a future fanatic."
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GS: Did you see Cliff?

WC: Cliff's great.

GS: Oh man, that sounded good, I was seriously blown away.

WC: He played tonight? We were running off to see Menomena or something.

Wayne, what do you like about Greg's drumming?

GS: Oh, come on, come on! I'm not going to sit here! [We were all standing the whole time]

WC: He's the real deal. It's subtlety, it's freaky, it's just, it's expressive.

JMMC: It's totally uninhibited. It's the best kind.

WC: He's a master. He truly is a master. All those little things. To be able to spaz out intuitively, rush and pull back…

GS: Thanks maestro.

WC: It's sad. He makes every drummer that plays after him just look bad, some horrible human version of a bad drum machine.

Greg, you followed Boredoms and Caribou Vibration Ensemble, so many drummers and we were remarking, man Greg is fuckin' rocking, just one drummer!

GS: If you only have one drum set, and it's the same thing if you have a really small drum set, each part becomes proportionally that much louder.

WC: And you know that, you know it's true, so much stuff going on there's not much dynamic left.

GS: I heard the Caribou thing, I thought they sounded amazing. When they were doing that beat all together, I really liked that.

WC: Yeah great ensemble. And that Boredoms, I know.

GS: I wish I'd seen them, I was killing myself. We were at the artist check in and I was like come on! I want to go! I'm like, okay well, crimp your bracelet.

WC: He [Yamantaka Eye] had these crazy guitar things, bashing them with broom sticks.

GS: And they're all tuned to open tuning.

WC: Big crazy drone chords.

GS: I think there are two guitar techs just for that thing.

WC: I can imagine, at least! There's an army of people with them.

GS: When we just passed you on the golf-cart [earlier today] it was two hours after they [Boredoms] finished and they had only barely started loading out. We played a festival with them one time in Vienna or something, and they showed up three days before their performance to start setting up and sound checking. And they sound checked for three hours everyday for three days until they played.

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"... here comes Marshall Allen with a stack of these records that they've obviously printed on their own label. Just white sleeves with nothing on it, he's like who wants some records? Trying to unload these things, who's got a cigarette, and it's just like they really didn't even have a merch person!"
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WC: That's too much!

GS: And they bring all the kids. Yoshimi has two kids.

WC: Does she really?

GS: Only one is here now. One's seven months old.

WC: We videotaped his little boy, the boy that's with him today.

GS: I don't think that's Yoshimi's boy.

WC: That's her manager's boy, yeah. We were just in Japan and we saw them. Well it's great to see you guys! See you soon.

Well, that to me is why ATP is cool because people are just here walking around. I know you just got here briefly, but have you felt that as well?

GS: That they want to talk? Absolutely. Yes! Not every ATP is so small, this one's really small, it's fantastic. Last time I saw Flaming Lips was last month and it was Summer Sonic festival in Tokyo and I mean, the distance from one stage to the next stage was like, it took an hour to walk or you have to take a bus or something. And it was, you know, not exactly the same atmosphere. We were looking at this map today when we were driving in, and it was like ok, here's stage one and oh, here's stage two. I'm looking at the map and I'm thinking Summer Sonic proportions, from here to here maybe that's fifteen minutes, and it's like ten seconds! And I came in here and the venue is really small, I mean this is one of the smallest rooms that you'll ever see the Flaming Lips play in. And it's going to sound amazing. When it gets really big there's something from the stage that feels really spectacular, but if you're if in the audience, it's much more fun to have it be a little smaller and you can get closer and there's not a bad seat in the house in this place.

And I think the recorded music is a very different experience than seeing the show, it's just so worth seeing. It's unique, I'm not going to say anything about the Flaming Lips that hasn't already been said by a million people many times, but it's absolutely beautiful, it's like nothing else. Even on not that big of a budget, they created the most visually insane and unforgettable set of imagery and just barrage of intensity of every kind. You know, that any band has ever done. What he [Wayne] was nonsensically saying about me playing drums is how every band feels about the Flaming Lips. If a band ever wants to even pretend to have some kind of visual element, it's like why even try. I mean you've seen the Flaming Lips for five minutes, you're like uh…

Well yeah, I thought your visuals with Martha Colburn were great.

GS: Ah yeah, I couldn't see it! Oh man I'm so glad it worked out. We've known her for a long time and she's just an incredible visual artist and a master of completely stunning images and combinations of images. She is mostly known for doing animated super eight films, many in stop motion. It's just the most difficult possible way to make film. Film is difficult no matter what but she's doing it one frame at a time, painting something on glass, taking a picture of it, that's one frame, adding something, taking something away, changing slightly, take another picture, the video she did for “Wrong Time Capsule” may have played on Tiny Mix Tapes at one time. Well, she made that. I think she worked every waking moment for two weeks to make that. And it's two minutes long. So she's based in New York but she's internationally known. She's always at the more artistic festivals and she sometimes does guest professorships at various universities. I think first time we met her in person was in San Francisco when she was teaching at SF State for one semester, and she's just -- she's also a drummer, a totally insane drummer, the craziest drummer I've ever heard -- she's one of a kind.

Maybe you'll switch next time, you on visuals her on drums?

GS: Yeah, exactly. She used to have a band called The Dramatics, just a duo, and I never saw them, I wonder if there's any video of them online. The album that I have of theirs is called I think Ten Thousand Dollars, I don't know how many they pressed, maybe 1000 or 2000. Every single cover was handmade by Martha. Completely different. Really elaborate. The thing just took months. Just the absolute nuttiest music you've ever heard. I can't begin to describe it. Extremely busy. It's like her visuals, very fast paced and just filled with content, going by way too fast to ever get it in one try which makes me want to try again and again, that's why I love it. I feel it rewards repeated listening for the record or viewings for the films. I think she's a genius. I feel very lucky that she has interest in us. And she really worked hard for this thing! She prepared almost everything today especially for this. It's like “oh I made this for this song,” we're like what? It was meant to go with a certain song.

Well, it looked great.

GS: I hope there's a video of it, I wanna see!

Photo: [Michael Morel]

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